The podcaster and longtime newsman Tucker Carlson has emerged as the face of antiwar conservatism. Increasingly, that means Carlson appeals to progressives who agree with him on the Iran War. Yet Carlson remains not just a man of the right, but one willing to touch third rails and boldly challenge left-liberal orthodoxies. On no issue, perhaps, is that more apparent than mass migration and demographic change.
On Wednesday, Carlson sat down for an interview with The American Conservative. We discussed President Donald Trump’s latest threats against Iran, the sudden death of Senator Lindsey Graham, and Carlson’s plans to build a third party. Toward the end, I asked him a question that previously I’d posed to the author Ann Coulter and the immigration expert Mark Krikorian: Why has the Western world, and only the Western world, voluntarily transformed its demographic composition?
A transcript of our exchange is below:
You affirm the Christian and liberal view of the inherent dignity of all people while also saying, well, we don’t want mass migration from everywhere. We’re still a coherent people, and we shouldn’t change that. But, apparently, political elites in the Western world are not able to square that circle. Why do you think Western elites have transformed their populations through mass migration the past few decades, often against the wishes of their populations?
Well, it’s something I’ve obsessed over. And just to put it in perspective, the biggest and swiftest example of forced demographic change in recorded history, I think, were the Mongol invasions from the east to the west, famously across the steppe, these crazed, unwashed horsemen rolling through and raping everybody and killing all the men.
That caused massive demographic change. Massive. To the extent that you still look at self-identified Russians who have Asiatic features. So that’s the biggest demographic change that I’m aware of in all of history. And what we’ve seen since the end of the Second World War, which is 85 years, dwarfs it.
So, it is an understatement to say nothing like this has ever happened in history. No one has ever imagined anything like this could happen in all of history. You just end white-majority countries in a couple generations, in less than 100 years? And that’s what they’ve done.
So, why? I don’t know the answer. There’s been a lot of encouragement to do it by international bodies. There’s a lot of hostility toward Christian Europe, a lot. That is not acknowledged, but it is real.
But there’s also a sense in which this is mass suicide. I know on the internet it’s “the Jews did this!” or whatever. Well, sure, there are a lot of Jewish groups who were for it, but in the end, there’s a lot of white, nominally Christian people who love this stuff and went along with it…. And, you know, you can get all the encouragement you want from the UN or whatever, but in the end, if you’re allowing people from Africa to commit rape in your country, that’s on you, dude.
And so, what is that? There may be a self-destruct mechanism inside certain groups or cultures. It’s possible that after dominating the world for more than a thousand years, this group of people, white Christian Europeans, decided it’s time for us to exit the stage or something….
And I think you’ve not been allowed to talk about this because it’s “hate” or something to talk about the destruction of a racial group. Well, it’s actually not hate. What is happening is hate, right? But whatever. Because we haven’t talked about it, we haven’t really had a chance to think about it. But something very profound, and world-historic, is going on right now….
All of Europe and Canada and New Zealand and, unfortunately, the United States, have gone along with this. So I don’t know. It’s spiritual, obviously, but I don’t understand its outlines. Do you?
I don’t. I’ve asked Mark Krikorian of the Center for Immigration Studies, I’ve asked Ann Coulter, and now I’ve asked you. There’s something deeply psychologically mysterious here. Mark Krikorian actually suggested that it has roots in Christian theology. He’s a Christian, a deacon at his church, and he’s very opposed to mass migration, so he doesn’t think it’s inevitable that Christian theology leads to this open borders perspective—
Right.
But there might be a connection there—
Well, it’s a perversion. I mean, the most sophisticated and effective deceptions are all mimeographed copies, badly done copies of something real.
So, you saw this after the George Floyd riots, when you had all these Christian whites washing the feet of black people, who, by the way, all looked kind of confused and unsettled by it. You know, why are they worshiping me? But it was the whites who drove that….
And it had the aroma of Christianity, of Jesus washing his disciples’ feet. Laying down your life for others is at the center of Christianity, of course. But it wasn’t Christianity….
Yeah, and Christianity has been around in the West for a long time. The chronology suggests it would probably have more to do with World War II and the shame that white people feel—
Well, obviously.
But why would the countries that lost hundreds of thousands or millions of their own men fighting Nazism feel shame about Nazism? It’s not rational….
I’m against the Holocaust, that’s for sure, but every Holocaust museum in the United States ought to have an exhibit and a tribute to the American soldiers who fought the Nazis. Why wouldn’t you? It’s in America….
I do think that we’re at a massive disadvantage in this country because we have grown up in a culture, the only one in all history, that from the beginning precludes the possibility of the metaphysical. Every conversation in the United States, in this scientism regime that we live under, begins with the hard declaration that nothing is real unless you can measure it in a lab.
And so once you start there, you miss a lot of the forces that drive actual events and real history and change the course of people’s lives and of nations, because it’s not all measurable in a lab, actually. Sorry, I mean, I wish it was, but it’s not. You can’t reason your way to a solution a lot of the time, because some of this stuff is pre-rational. It is, sorry, spiritual.
Editor’s note: This transcript excerpt has been lightly edited for length and readability. You can watch the full conversation here.
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